Please Review My Wiring Plan

I've been the owner of a 1930s era Colonial Revival that our first major project is to rewire the house. We have a 100A main box that is maxed out, a combination of cloth 2-wire, flex, and some cracking Romex along with some downright dangerous open wiring in the basement, tapped wiring in the kitchen and study, some gangboxes that were wallpapered over in the bedrooms that we assume were wall lights (we have similar wall lights in the bathrooms), inadequate outlets in most rooms, no GFI. Etc. Etc. In addition the bathrooms are small and lack wall switches or outlets (they have two pull-cord wall lamps, with one lamp with a outlet.



Here is a floor plan with electrical represented on the ground and second floor. Still working on mapping the basement and the attic (which has a 3/4 converted finished "bonus" room.



My Father-In-Law who is a licensed electrician has promised to gracefully donate a couple months of his time to rewire everything. Also a bonus in this is the majority of outlets are mounted on the baseboard trim and not in the plaster.



My plans are to go with a single 200A main, likely double the amount of outlets in each room, GFI where needed.



While I know some basics, I want to familiarize myself a bit more on what is the best approach to rewire. For instance should I look at running conduit in just one spot of the house, or should I run two on each end of the house? I plan to do some major remodeling of some rooms in the future, especially the kitchen and bath so what are the best ways to ensure I have an easier time with these remodels?
      

My wife and I are doing some minor kitchen remodeling in a few months (new sink, countertops, backsplash, adding disposal).  I was looking at the electric to see what I was in for.  There is currently a switch located where you would locate the switch for a disposal... but it shuts off the dishwasher.  WHAT?  WHY?



So I look into the dishwasher circuit.  20a at the panel, wires run in conduit to the switch location.  Out of the switch box comes 14/2 NM-B (WHAT, undersized!) comes out under the drywall and over to the junction box on the dishwasher.



So, what do you guys see as the solution here?  I was thinking to run a new 20a circuit, with 12 gauge THHN from the panel to the switch box, then splice that to a new piece of 12/2 NM-B to the dishwasher.  Question: can the NM-B just lay behind the dishwasher like that?  Should it be BX? 



The 14/2 NM-B would be removed and 12/2 run from the switch to a new outlet under the sink for the disposal.  So, I would end up with 2x 20a circuits: one for disposal, one for dishwasher.



Does this sound like a solid plan?
      

I completed my whole house rewire last Fall (took 2 years and severely tested my wife's patience). I read 5 wiring books in the early stages but read Rex Cauldwell's Wiring a House with his above code suggestions near the end of the project and now im obsessing about some of the stuff I didnt do. What do you guys think of some of the suggestions, specifically,



1. Driving 8 ground rods and the wire must be continuous (I drove 4 but the #6 copper wire from the panel to rod 1 is 1 wire and the #6 wire from rod 1 through rod 4 is another wire but both are properly clampled to rod 1 with an acord clamp). Funny, even with 4 rods there is almost no current through the rods versus 2-3 amps through the traditional cold water pipe ground



2. 1 circuit for each duplex receptacle in bathrooms. Since I have a quad in each of the batchrooms, that would be 4 circuits instead of 1 (code allows an unlimited number of bathroom receptacles on one circuit which does seem odd)



3. Nothing shared with kitchen counter receptacles (ie kitchen wall and dining room on their own)



4. Dedicated circuits for everything - I added dedicted circuit for fridge, microwave and dishwasher/disposer, but did not separate the dishwasher disposer onto 2 circuits. There used to be what I called "Circuit X" which did kitchen counter, microwave, dishwasher, disposer, fridge, 2 kitchen counter outlets, dining room and 1 outside outlet. Wife frequently blew that one. Circuit X was divided into at least 5 circuits during the rewire



5. No switch loops - did 5 of these to save on carpentry/avoid certain box fill problems. Now 2011 code says no switch loops without a neutral. Oops?



Just wondering what you guys think.
      

Hello All,



First post, working on a complete bare-stud remodel of my home, so I will try to be descriptive enough.  I have a 150 Amp service to the house (which I might upgrade later) with a meter socket and breakers outside.  I am running into the house (more than 10') to a 125 Amp 20 space ML.  I have too many 15 and 20 Amp circuits now for the panel and need to change it out.  The house is rather sprawling, so the rather than tie rooms together in a confusing way, I broke the circuits down per minimum requirements... almost none of them are near capacity.  I am going to run the big stuff back out to the exterior panel/service however I still need more space in my interior panel.  What I REALLY need is just a 40 circuit 125 Amp GE panel but I don't think those exist because (guessing) *most* 40 circuit scenarios need more amps.



What I wanted to do was upgrade to a 40 space panel (only been able to find a 200-Amp).  I realize I am still limited outside by the service and have already run 4/0 aluminum.  I know I am not going to go anywhere near the 200 Amp capacity, I just need the space.  Is this ok?  Any reason I shouldn't use a 200 Amp MB panel? 



Thanks!
      

So we just bought a circal-1930s house, and one very large project looming is redoing the eletrical. The house has a mix of BX, cotton-wraped romex, and some very cracked romex running around the house. combine that with some very odd additions for outlets, bad light switch placement, it's just going to be a large project.



My father in law, a licensed electrician, has promised to do the rewiring of the house this summer. The problem is I plan to do some major renovations in the coming years (namely the kitchen).



I am already drawing up floor plans now so I can stategically think of where to put needed outlets, but should they be installed at this time? Is it worth the headache to install new outlets now and put them in their proper locations when the reno comes?
      

That means it applies to the entire country

Permits & Inspections are usually required for ALL electric work

It may not be legal for you to do your own work, Check with your local Building Dept

This thread will be added onto as a form of "Cliff Notes" for the NEC

If there is something that needs to be corrected, or if you wish to add to this thread; please let us know



The NEC is available online, you may have to sign up for an account to view it:

http://nfpaweb3.gvpi.net/rrserver/br...NFPASTD/7008SB

(may not be working)



Draft Version:

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF...08ROPDraft.pdf 



Also a link to State specific NEC/Building codes:

http://bulk.resource.org/codes.gov/



New Code book comes out every 3 years, it is not always fully accepted by States & sometimes not until 1-2 years later

Local codes can vary from the NEC



210.23 An individual branch circuit shall be permitted to supply any load for which it is rated (some think you can only load to 80%)



210.50 Required Branch circuits

14g wire is rated for 15a, 12g wire is rated for 20a

15a outlets ONLY on a 15a circuit

15a/20a are allowed on a 20a circuit

A single 15a receptacle is not allowed on a 20a circuit

AFCI protection is required almost every where under NEC 2008

Exceptions are GFCI required: bathrooms, kitchens, laundry (GFCI if sink within 6' of receptacle), garage & outside circuits



Bathroom requires a dedicated 20a GFCI protected circuit that can serve outlets in multiple bathrooms

OR

Outlets & Lights in One bathroom



Kitchen requires 2 dedicated 20a GFCI protected circuits for counter (no lights)



Laundry area requires a dedicated 20a GFCI protected circuit

.

.
      

Appreciate any help with this.



Background:



- new to us old house, got three quotes for an upgrade to 200A service plus addition of three new circuits in conduit with receptacles (Chicago area, conduit is code in just about every town around, I have no issue with that);



- existing service to house was overhead, opted to keep it overhead and not bury it;



- the quote says, exactly: "Installation of a 200 amp 240 volt overhead electric service complete with riser, outdoor meter socket with a 200 amp disconnect, 40 position circuit breaker type distribution panel..." etc.;



I understood from discussing the work with the contractor we chose that install overhead service meant to include the work and materials needed to upgrade the line coming from the pole at the alley to the house to handle 200A capacity; paid 50% down on quote;



- the morning the boss and tech show up for the work, boss says we already have a 200A overhead, which I seem to recall the home inspector mentioning months ago before the closing (makes sense because the overhead runs to a single room addition put on several years ago), but boss was the guy who came to the house to quote the job in the first place, didn't mention anything about the existing overhead capacity at the time;



- the work gets done, seems fine; tech left without going over anything with us but whatever.



Final bill matches the quote to the dollar. There is no indication that there were any surprises during the work.



Since the quote says installation of overhead service and they didn't need to replace the overhead lines from the pole I think the final bill should be lower than the quote. The distance from the pole to the riser is about 40 feet.



Should I expect from the wording in the quote that the final bill should be lower than the quote because they didn't have to touch the existing overhead?



About how much lower?



We didn't go with the lowest quote, didn't beat him up on price and the total bill is quite a pretty penny, so I think he would be making good money either way.



I know there is no way for someone to tell me an exact dollar figure here based on a blog post, but I'd like to get some kind of idea so I can start my conversation about the final bill.



Thanks for any help out there.
      

We are in the process of redoing the area around our pool. As part of this we are adding a pool house and hot tub (separate from pool).



I have a couple Elecrtical Contractors coming out this weekend to price/put together a plan. Along with talking to several indivuals, I've been lurking around reading and trying to gather info but feel the need to have as much info available prior to getting these estimates and plans. Please excuse any incorrect verbage i might use and appreciate any corrections to my terminoligy



So this is what i have 



The pool house is approx 100 ft from the house.

It will have a few and outlets for blenders, minifridge, tv etc

the pool equipement consites of a pump, heater and a sand filter. The pump and current heater run off standard 110 lines (however if i upgrade this I dont know if the new one will require a 220 line



The pool light seems to run off a standard line as well



The hottub requires a 220 40amp line



There will be landscaping lighting as well as 2 more outlets for accesories



The original setup prior to last year had what looks like 6 or 8 guage (3 wire) directly buried about 6-8 inches under  ground. it was running what look to be two 20amp circuits from the main panel inside the house. This wire got split to two separate outlets near the pool. One went directly to the pool equipment and on directy to the pool light switch and some landscaping ighting.



With all the enhancements we are making i'm wondering what the best approach will be.



I assume a sub panel in the pool house that has one "main breaker" and has its own ground. Then one run to the pool equipment and one run to the hottub and a couple runs to the accesories i mentioned.



I have seen several replies on here where individuals talk about  "if they were doing the job this is how they would do it". Id be interested in some responses



What type of wire would be best to get it to the pool house

Does it run right from the main panel in the house?

Does direct burial make sense or shold i put it in conduit? I'm already digging a trench three feet deep for water and RG6 (which will be pushed thru conduit)



Any question i should make sure i ask the contractors?





Thanks in advance for any input
      

Hi all, this is my first post, so...my kitchen was just renovated and the electrical outlets are on the walls and I wanted them in plugmold under the cabinet. Why didn't it happen?  Long story, but I'm doing it myself now.  The electrical receptacles are on 2 separate circuits with a gfci receptacle on each and neither circuit has a receptacle outside the kitchen where I can put the gfci's, so I'm putting gfci breakers in the panel instead. I've run into a different problem on each circuit that'd like some advice on.



Circuit 1: this is a 20 amp circuit.  I have to plug this circuit's neutral wire into the gfci breaker, but I couldn't see which neutral wire matched the hot wire (buried in mess of wires) and I don't have a continuity tester so I just pulled one neutral at a time (tedious) until the circuit failed, but it never failed. So I did this again for every neutral...same result. This circuit shares a few boxes with other circuits so I'm wondering if the neutrals on different circuits are tied together somewhere, and if so I'm pretty sure, but not completely, that that's not going to work with the gfci breaker.  So I didn't install that gfci breaker since I'm not confident it would actually gfci (yep i verbified gfci).  What do you think?



Circuit 2:  this is a 20 amp circuit.  This circuit currently has the refrigerator, gas stove and range hood, and then a gfci in front of 3 electrical receptacles, which already sounds bad since I thought the kitchen receptacles required 2 dedicated circuits. I replaced that breaker with no problem, but it tripped after a few minutes and continued to trip every few minutes. I haven't changed anything else on that circuit yet and it's never tripped before, but now it is, so I put the old breaker back for now. The current gfci receptacle is only protecting the 3 outlets since the appliances are ahead of it. I know you wouldn't normally want the appliances gfci protected, so do you think the refrigerator motor may be a problem?  Do I need the appliances on a separate circuit?  What would you suggest I do?



Thanks, and if you're wondering "why all the effort?", it's partly because I'm meddlesome, partly because I'm bored, and partly because the backsplash tile is to be on showcase, not the electrical receptacles.
      

I'm having quite the time finding an electrician who will quote this.  Just about all of them say that what I need is to upgrade my main panel but I want to install a new main panel that is a part of the meter base outside and make my current 100A panel a sub.   Maybe you people can tell me why nobody seems to want to do this.  Here are a few shots of the existing meter (note what is apparently a 60A base here)






and a shot of the conduit headed underground.  Like most homes built during this era, the conduit makes a right turn underground to enter through the cinderblock, ending up coming into the back of the main panel.  This conduit encloses a 4 wire feed. edit: no, actually it is only a 3 wire feed which is a problem if I want to convert the original main panel a sub.






Here's the existing panel.  It's a 60's era Square-D split panel with a 30 amp sub panel for the finished basement.  Those are low voltage wires to circuit taps for my home energy monitoring system btw.






The reason I don't want to upgrade this panel are as follows:

We won't be expanding the electrical west of this panel any more.  All planned expansion (240v car charger in Garage, planned 3 season room with grid tie Solar on the roof) will be to the east.


Upgrading the panel will require major surgery to the walls.  Due to the way the original basement is engineered there, the walls have an intricate stud pattern behind the existing panel.  I'd pretty much have to rip out a 4' section and redo it to make the access large enough to handle a 200A panel.


Adding additional circuits to an upgraded panel will require an act of God due to the finished basement construction.  There are no raceways for additional circuits.






Based on this, my thoughts were to create a new 200A main panel outside based on something like the GE model TSM420CSCUP loadcenter.  Here's a shot of this panel:






This particular panel has room for three 2-pole breakers in addition to the 200A mains.  I'd add a 100A 2-pole breaker for the existing panel, with the other two reserved for the garage/solar expansions.



The issue with the contractors who have quoted the job appears to be the conduit going to the existing panel.  I'm not sure what's wrong with it but it is apparently not compliant with current code.  Obviously the bonding needs to change, new grounding electrodes need to be driven, and a water pipe ground needs to be established to the new main panel, but what else is required?



I'd like to throughly research all the code considerations here so I can approach a contractor from a more knowledgable perspective then determine the best way to perform this upgrade.  Due to POCO coordination and the need to cut household power for the duration of the job, I have no desire to DIY this one...



So what exactly is wrong with the conduit running from the existing meter base to the existing load center?  Why is everybody telling me that I can't do essentially what I've described above?  What are the relevant code sections that will apply to this job?  Should I be chatting with my AHJ about local considerations now or should I wait until I have the code requirements down pat (assuming the latter here)?