Electrical Upgrades To An Apartment Complex Built In 1950

Hey guys,

we have a 4-plex in San Diego that we bought several months ago that was built in 1950. According to inspector's report, we needed electrical upgrades. One of the electricians told us city is under a project to underground all the electrical lines, and if we do not do upgrades the way city EXPECTS us, once our neighborhood is due for undergounding, we will have to REDO the whole thing again (like changing the location of the MAIN electrical panel from where it is now).

Can they FORCE these upgrades to the owners? I am talking about a 15000-20000$ that will be required... It is not cheap...



What we wanted to do is the very minimum, but to make sure our tenants are safe: just replace fuses in each unit with BREAKERS and leave it in the closets as we "grandfathered" them in and replace the main panel fuse with a breaker.

But according to the advise of an electrician based on the city undergrounding requirements, we will have to RELOCATE the fuses from closets to the OUTSIDE of the building AND RELOCATE the main panel from where it is now to an opposite direction (closer to the main street).

Can the city ENFORCE us to do this?
      

Hi, we drove past a triplex we are considering for purchase tonight. When we got out of the car to have a look around a bit, one of the tenants saw us and came out. He was telling us what he knew of the house and said the fuse box is on the outside of the house. This is a concern for us, because a) it is fuses and not breakers, which is preferable and b) we live in MN, which has extreme weather of all type. I have never heard of an outside fuse box before. Is it common? Will it pass an FHA inspection if we do decide to buy it? How difficult is it to relocate the panel to inside the house? Will it need to be moved? Thanks in advance for any advice.
      

I'm having quite the time finding an electrician who will quote this.  Just about all of them say that what I need is to upgrade my main panel but I want to install a new main panel that is a part of the meter base outside and make my current 100A panel a sub.   Maybe you people can tell me why nobody seems to want to do this.  Here are a few shots of the existing meter (note what is apparently a 60A base here)






and a shot of the conduit headed underground.  Like most homes built during this era, the conduit makes a right turn underground to enter through the cinderblock, ending up coming into the back of the main panel.  This conduit encloses a 4 wire feed. edit: no, actually it is only a 3 wire feed which is a problem if I want to convert the original main panel a sub.






Here's the existing panel.  It's a 60's era Square-D split panel with a 30 amp sub panel for the finished basement.  Those are low voltage wires to circuit taps for my home energy monitoring system btw.






The reason I don't want to upgrade this panel are as follows:

We won't be expanding the electrical west of this panel any more.  All planned expansion (240v car charger in Garage, planned 3 season room with grid tie Solar on the roof) will be to the east.


Upgrading the panel will require major surgery to the walls.  Due to the way the original basement is engineered there, the walls have an intricate stud pattern behind the existing panel.  I'd pretty much have to rip out a 4' section and redo it to make the access large enough to handle a 200A panel.


Adding additional circuits to an upgraded panel will require an act of God due to the finished basement construction.  There are no raceways for additional circuits.






Based on this, my thoughts were to create a new 200A main panel outside based on something like the GE model TSM420CSCUP loadcenter.  Here's a shot of this panel:






This particular panel has room for three 2-pole breakers in addition to the 200A mains.  I'd add a 100A 2-pole breaker for the existing panel, with the other two reserved for the garage/solar expansions.



The issue with the contractors who have quoted the job appears to be the conduit going to the existing panel.  I'm not sure what's wrong with it but it is apparently not compliant with current code.  Obviously the bonding needs to change, new grounding electrodes need to be driven, and a water pipe ground needs to be established to the new main panel, but what else is required?



I'd like to throughly research all the code considerations here so I can approach a contractor from a more knowledgable perspective then determine the best way to perform this upgrade.  Due to POCO coordination and the need to cut household power for the duration of the job, I have no desire to DIY this one...



So what exactly is wrong with the conduit running from the existing meter base to the existing load center?  Why is everybody telling me that I can't do essentially what I've described above?  What are the relevant code sections that will apply to this job?  Should I be chatting with my AHJ about local considerations now or should I wait until I have the code requirements down pat (assuming the latter here)?
      

I have a fuse box for a part of the house. I would like to add a breaker box.



I am going to just use the old fuse box as a conjunction box, and add the breaker box on it.



My questions is:



how exactly am I going to do the wiring for this fuse box/conjuction box?



Do i keep the fuses in the fuse box?
      

Hello All,



First post, working on a complete bare-stud remodel of my home, so I will try to be descriptive enough.  I have a 150 Amp service to the house (which I might upgrade later) with a meter socket and breakers outside.  I am running into the house (more than 10') to a 125 Amp 20 space ML.  I have too many 15 and 20 Amp circuits now for the panel and need to change it out.  The house is rather sprawling, so the rather than tie rooms together in a confusing way, I broke the circuits down per minimum requirements... almost none of them are near capacity.  I am going to run the big stuff back out to the exterior panel/service however I still need more space in my interior panel.  What I REALLY need is just a 40 circuit 125 Amp GE panel but I don't think those exist because (guessing) *most* 40 circuit scenarios need more amps.



What I wanted to do was upgrade to a 40 space panel (only been able to find a 200-Amp).  I realize I am still limited outside by the service and have already run 4/0 aluminum.  I know I am not going to go anywhere near the 200 Amp capacity, I just need the space.  Is this ok?  Any reason I shouldn't use a 200 Amp MB panel? 



Thanks!
      

Hi all

I'm renovating a rental home I bought. It has the original 90 year old fuse panel  and I'd like to replace it with a modern panelboard. Here's a picture of the current setup:







I'd like to demo the inset fuse box cabinet and then mount a new panel on the wall to the left.

The service conduit goes inside the stucco into the building. I'd like to cut it, put in junction box, and a sweep and extend the service to the left to the new panel



I called our electric co. to get the power disconnected and strangely the rep told me "Oh, people usually just work on it hot". Is this true/feasible??



Your advice is appreciated
      

My existing service entrance consists of an external Meter can mounted on the outside of the garage wall directly behind a SD Main Breaker Panel (MBP) with a 150 amp main breaker.  In order to support upgrades, I am installing a second MBP (200 amp) inside the garage in the wall cavity right next to the existing panel.



Local code requires that the upgraded Meter can be purchased from the City Utility.  I have already confirmed with the local inspector that either 4/0 Al or 2/0 Cu SE cable are acceptable for both the existing and new MBP.



My question is what is the code requirement for getting the 3 SE cables run from the dual lugs to the new panel?  Can those conductors run into the same wall cavity where the existing panel is installed?  If so, I'm certain they can't go through the same conduit nipple that connects the back of the meter can to the existing MBP.  Can they route in behind/above/below the existing panel and through a hole in the wall stud to gain access to the adjacent stud bay to get to the new panel?  If not, do they need to be routed out of the meter can on the external wall in conduit over to the next stud bay and then enter the wall there to gain access to the new panel?  If external conduit is required I would expect it must be metallic as opposed to PVC.



Best Regards,



Ted
      

I'm new to this site.  But would appreciate some troubleshooting.  I just renovated my kitchen, gutted and all, finished in the Fall.  I did not replace wiring to the dryer, nor tamper with it, to my knowledge.  We did have an electrician add a small fuse panel.  We did not add more appliances then before, added some lights, but mostly used the room to separate things out.  Had a mentor do the wiring, many years of experience, very tidy and careful work, though not electrician by trade.  We have a standard 200 amp box as far as i know.  The house is 100 years old, but the wiring isn't.



In October my mother in law heard a very loud bang.  The electric dryer had been running.  She smelled smoke.  At the dryer receptacle was molten plastic sprayed onto the wall, caused by overheating at that point, due to I don't know what.  I thought maybe I had knocked something loose in the receptacle when i was drywalling around it.  I can't remember now if the breaker had tripped.  The receptacle and plug were toast. 



I replaced the receptacle, I replaced the dryer cord, not the breaker.   The dryer worked fine until february, when it stopped heating.  I found a bad thermal fuse and replaced it, the very common two pronged white one. 



The dryer worked fine until early April when it stopped heating again.  I checked all the fuses/thermostats on the back and the heating element, as I had done the first time.  Nothing was bad.  I checked the voltage coming out of the wall, as I had done the first time, only this time I did it correctly and got a reading that told me to check the breaker in the panel, which had not thrown.  When I checked the voltage between the Nuetral Bus and the two terminals on the Dryer's 30 amp breaker I only got a good reading on one of them, telling me that the breaker was bad.  While at the box, i noticed that to the main breaker, from where the conduit comes into the box from outside, the nuetral wires are bare all the way up, no insulation, and at the terminal of the main breaker they appear to have all melted together, even a couple small pieces have melted off of the "bundle." 



Switched the range 50 amp breaker with the dryer, dryer worked fine, nothing was back fed either.  Bought a new 30 amp breaker for the dryer and installed it on Saturday.  Also on Saturday we were given a dryer, about 4 years old, same as ours, so i hooked it up and saved ours for a spare, which I deemed still good since it seemed the breaker was the issue.  New Dryer worked fine from saturday until today.  Now it won't turn on, though it didn't cut out mid load yesterday either.  The breaker did not trip.  I repeat, no tripped breaker.  I just checked the voltage at the wall and it seems to have that same problem where one side of the receptacle gets a reading of 120, and the other a reading of about 5.  The problem must be bigger than the breaker.  I am not an electrician, I am a welder.  I have gone as far as I could on my own.  Thank you.
      

Hello All,



I'm a DIY'er for most things except things that I want perfectly done and I know my limits. My brother is a licensed Master electrician but has really only dealt with Commercial last several years - his company are commercial electricians who setup new building contruction etc..

Anyway, my wife and I are getting Central Air from our tax money this year. That project starts in two weeks. My brother is going to tie everything together for me (electrical) but I had to do the research and buy everything. The HVAC installer said I need a 30A 2P GFI breaker to a 30A disconnect on the side of my house. I have the breaker specific to my panel, 10-2 wire and PVC conduit, etc.



Question:

I did purchase a 30A fusible pull-out disconnect box and 2x 30A NOS type H fuses. Will this work? The condenser is a new Trane XB13 and I can't find any documentation stating it needs fusible over non-fusible.



Thanks,

~S
      

Hello.



I recently purchased a home that has a a new grounded breaker panel but none of the outlets themselves are grounded save the hvac system in the basement. I had an electrician come and he said the fastest way to get it done is to switch the appropriate breakers to GFCI breakers in my service box and then I can change the outlets and then just put the stickers that say ungrounded etc on the new 3 prong receptacles. he called the inspector to double check and the inspector told him that he can't do it this way but he needs to find the first outlet in the loop from each breaker line and change that receptacle to a gfci and then we can change each receptacle to 3 prong in that loop.



Wouldn't just changing the breaker do the same thing? also if I did just install a Gfci receptacle on the first outlet in the loop, if it breaks wouldn't the rest of the outlets behind that gfci not function until I replaced the Gfci outlet where as a breaker would just pop and I can simply go turn it back on?



Just wanted to get some opinion from the experts as I'm willing to spend more on doing gfci breakers and am confused as to why the inspector suggested the way he did



Thanks for any help!