2oo Amp Service With Existing 125amp Panel

I'm having quite the time finding an electrician who will quote this.  Just about all of them say that what I need is to upgrade my main panel but I want to install a new main panel that is a part of the meter base outside and make my current 100A panel a sub.   Maybe you people can tell me why nobody seems to want to do this.  Here are a few shots of the existing meter (note what is apparently a 60A base here)






and a shot of the conduit headed underground.  Like most homes built during this era, the conduit makes a right turn underground to enter through the cinderblock, ending up coming into the back of the main panel.  This conduit encloses a 4 wire feed. edit: no, actually it is only a 3 wire feed which is a problem if I want to convert the original main panel a sub.






Here's the existing panel.  It's a 60's era Square-D split panel with a 30 amp sub panel for the finished basement.  Those are low voltage wires to circuit taps for my home energy monitoring system btw.






The reason I don't want to upgrade this panel are as follows:

We won't be expanding the electrical west of this panel any more.  All planned expansion (240v car charger in Garage, planned 3 season room with grid tie Solar on the roof) will be to the east.


Upgrading the panel will require major surgery to the walls.  Due to the way the original basement is engineered there, the walls have an intricate stud pattern behind the existing panel.  I'd pretty much have to rip out a 4' section and redo it to make the access large enough to handle a 200A panel.


Adding additional circuits to an upgraded panel will require an act of God due to the finished basement construction.  There are no raceways for additional circuits.






Based on this, my thoughts were to create a new 200A main panel outside based on something like the GE model TSM420CSCUP loadcenter.  Here's a shot of this panel:






This particular panel has room for three 2-pole breakers in addition to the 200A mains.  I'd add a 100A 2-pole breaker for the existing panel, with the other two reserved for the garage/solar expansions.



The issue with the contractors who have quoted the job appears to be the conduit going to the existing panel.  I'm not sure what's wrong with it but it is apparently not compliant with current code.  Obviously the bonding needs to change, new grounding electrodes need to be driven, and a water pipe ground needs to be established to the new main panel, but what else is required?



I'd like to throughly research all the code considerations here so I can approach a contractor from a more knowledgable perspective then determine the best way to perform this upgrade.  Due to POCO coordination and the need to cut household power for the duration of the job, I have no desire to DIY this one...



So what exactly is wrong with the conduit running from the existing meter base to the existing load center?  Why is everybody telling me that I can't do essentially what I've described above?  What are the relevant code sections that will apply to this job?  Should I be chatting with my AHJ about local considerations now or should I wait until I have the code requirements down pat (assuming the latter here)?
      

My existing service entrance consists of an external Meter can mounted on the outside of the garage wall directly behind a SD Main Breaker Panel (MBP) with a 150 amp main breaker.  In order to support upgrades, I am installing a second MBP (200 amp) inside the garage in the wall cavity right next to the existing panel.



Local code requires that the upgraded Meter can be purchased from the City Utility.  I have already confirmed with the local inspector that either 4/0 Al or 2/0 Cu SE cable are acceptable for both the existing and new MBP.



My question is what is the code requirement for getting the 3 SE cables run from the dual lugs to the new panel?  Can those conductors run into the same wall cavity where the existing panel is installed?  If so, I'm certain they can't go through the same conduit nipple that connects the back of the meter can to the existing MBP.  Can they route in behind/above/below the existing panel and through a hole in the wall stud to gain access to the adjacent stud bay to get to the new panel?  If not, do they need to be routed out of the meter can on the external wall in conduit over to the next stud bay and then enter the wall there to gain access to the new panel?  If external conduit is required I would expect it must be metallic as opposed to PVC.



Best Regards,



Ted
      

Greetings,



I am looking to wire a sub-panel in my barn to support a general workshop.  Loads would include standard woodworking tools (including 220V table saw), welding, air compressor, etc.



The house has 200AMP main breaker and minimal in-house loads.  Dryer is gas, Oven and cooktop are gas.  Water heater is off the oil furnace.  I think the biggest single load is the well-pump and/or fridge compressor.  We do have sporadic toaster oven, hairdryers etc.  Otherwise its just lights, ceiling fans, flat-panel tv, stereo...



We had 4" conduit installed to the barn, so there is plenty of room to pull a big cable.  The entire run from the house panel to the barn totals around 155' (probably less, but rounding up)



My questions a



Can I pull a 100AMP sub-panel from my main house panel as described?


Would 4/0,4/0,4/0,2/0 aluminum service entrance cable be a good choice for this run?  Could I do it with something lighter?


Could I put an additional sub-panel in the garage (about halfway to the barn) by interrupting the run?  The garage subpanel would have a 220V plug for possible welding and/or electric car charging.  Would this require a separate run?


Are there any other considerations I should be thinking about in planning this?




Thanks for any thoughts you can share on this! 



Cheers,



pete
      

I have a grounding question.  I am installing 400a service to my new home.  We ran 350MCM wire underground thru 3" conduit from the 2ndary terminal (moped) to the house into a 320A Cooper B-Line meter.  From the meter we ran 2 sets of 4/0-4/0-2/0 thru the wall to 2-200a breaker panels ("standard practice", according to my electrical supplier).  The ground wire (#4Cu bare) from the grounding rods comes up from the ground and we're curious if there has to be a special splice connecting the ground wire to each breaker panel or can we run thru one breaker panel to then next, say by connecting the ground wire to a ground bus on one panel and running that thru to the next with #4Cu bare or #6Cu in conductor.  Different electricians are suggesting different methods and the electrical inspector is unsure, but seems to be leaning towards the "special splice". Any feedback would be appreciated.
      

I am replacing a feed through breaker panel the bus bar and breaker was inverted but the main breaker is up and down with on being down and I also noticed that the plastic in the back that holds the bus bar is cracked.



I bought a newer model from the same manufacture that has a much better design and a better main breaker.  But unlike the one I already have when you invert it the breaker slots don't line up and cover does not fit properly.



I was thinking about just cutting out the center where the breaker slots are.  I measured and if I cut it just right all I have to do is turn it over and it will line up just have to bolt or weld it in place.  Would this be legal



I also thought about putting the panel the way it came and feeding the bus bar hot and keeping the panel under the 6 throw rule.  Or would that not work because I am using feed through.  There will be 4 double pole breakers and the one main that feeds a sub panel.





I really hate the cheap design of this panel.







I plan to replace it with this.




      

Help!  We decided to raise the ceiling in our kitchen for some new taller cabinets. We have 30" cabinets with a 7' drop ceiling. By taking out the drop ceiling we can go to an 8' ceiling with 36" cabinets.  We just had the ceiling taken out and now I see I got a problem!



This is a 2 story home, the wall in question is a load bearing wall (runs through the center of the house) The main breaker panel is in this wall (the panel opening is in the adjacent family room)



As you can see in the photos I cannot extend the wall up because all of the home wiring is in the way!  I expected I might have to run longer wires but not this. 



Some ideas we've thought about...

notch the double 2x4s (not sure how much I need to notch or allowed to)



build a cove (box) and leave the wires like they are (might be an eyesore in our new kitchen)



put up a large crown moulding along the entire wall (would be the only crown moulding in the house)



extend the ceiling up 6-7" instead of 12" (should leave enough room for wire to stay)



I'm leaning to the notching option if I can find a way to reinforce that section.



Any ideas?



thanks!
      

I have 200 amp service with a 50 amp service tap to the garage and another 50 amp tap to a small service panel for extra circuits. I have a 70 amp draw for a tankless water heater, 30 amp draw for the air conditioner, a 40 amp draw for the cooktop and a 40 amp draw for a double oven. I want to add another tankless water heater about 50 feet from the 200 amp panel. The new water heater requires three 50 amp breakers. How do I get the necessary service to the new water heater?
      

Need to run wire for automatic horse waterers (1.3 amps each) to an open field about 350' away from the barn.



Ran 14/2 UF wire to 3 waterers inside the barn.

350' away from barn, is #10 wire OK for such a small load (1.3 amps for each waterer - 3 waterers in the field)? or do I need #8?



In the field, need to run to 3 separate wateres, so I think I need a subpanel out in the field...

How do I install the subpanel in an outdoor setting & what materials do I need?

If #10 wire is ok, I need 10/3 UF to run from the main panel to the subpanel - correct? Also, does the entire run need to be in conduit?

What size conduit if needed?

Is 18" deep enough?



What size breaker at the main panel?

What size breaker at the subpanel?--> only need to run 3 waterers (1.7 amps each) and maybe two separate circuits of outdoor receptacles...

What else is needed here? type of outdoor subpanel, grounding rods, etc...????



Thanks for the help!
      

Hello All,



First post, working on a complete bare-stud remodel of my home, so I will try to be descriptive enough.  I have a 150 Amp service to the house (which I might upgrade later) with a meter socket and breakers outside.  I am running into the house (more than 10') to a 125 Amp 20 space ML.  I have too many 15 and 20 Amp circuits now for the panel and need to change it out.  The house is rather sprawling, so the rather than tie rooms together in a confusing way, I broke the circuits down per minimum requirements... almost none of them are near capacity.  I am going to run the big stuff back out to the exterior panel/service however I still need more space in my interior panel.  What I REALLY need is just a 40 circuit 125 Amp GE panel but I don't think those exist because (guessing) *most* 40 circuit scenarios need more amps.



What I wanted to do was upgrade to a 40 space panel (only been able to find a 200-Amp).  I realize I am still limited outside by the service and have already run 4/0 aluminum.  I know I am not going to go anywhere near the 200 Amp capacity, I just need the space.  Is this ok?  Any reason I shouldn't use a 200 Amp MB panel? 



Thanks!
      

I am installing a square D 100 amp panel in a mobel home and had a question. The panel came with no seperate grounding bar only 2 connected neutrel bars and the typical hot bars. I was curious as to why some panels have seperate grounding bars (for bare copper) attached to them an some do not. Thier was a green bonding screw that said if bonding the box was necessary to screw it in the nuetrel bar and attach a wire from it to the panel box. Would it be better to attach a grounding bar directly to the panel and run a wire from it to a rod in the ground?