Need Help

I have an older QO-Square D eight circuit panel. It is being used as a subpanel and when installed was not bonded.

The neutral bar consists of a bar mounted with one screw and a second bar mounted to it by standoffs. This second bar is where the bonding screw is. I can see no way to separate these two bars for proper bonding. There is no provision for mounting this second bar.

I wish I could post a picture but I will have to work on that.

I am thinking I will have to purchase a new panel but can't understand why neutral and ground cannot be separated.
      

I'm having quite the time finding an electrician who will quote this.  Just about all of them say that what I need is to upgrade my main panel but I want to install a new main panel that is a part of the meter base outside and make my current 100A panel a sub.   Maybe you people can tell me why nobody seems to want to do this.  Here are a few shots of the existing meter (note what is apparently a 60A base here)






and a shot of the conduit headed underground.  Like most homes built during this era, the conduit makes a right turn underground to enter through the cinderblock, ending up coming into the back of the main panel.  This conduit encloses a 4 wire feed. edit: no, actually it is only a 3 wire feed which is a problem if I want to convert the original main panel a sub.






Here's the existing panel.  It's a 60's era Square-D split panel with a 30 amp sub panel for the finished basement.  Those are low voltage wires to circuit taps for my home energy monitoring system btw.






The reason I don't want to upgrade this panel are as follows:

We won't be expanding the electrical west of this panel any more.  All planned expansion (240v car charger in Garage, planned 3 season room with grid tie Solar on the roof) will be to the east.


Upgrading the panel will require major surgery to the walls.  Due to the way the original basement is engineered there, the walls have an intricate stud pattern behind the existing panel.  I'd pretty much have to rip out a 4' section and redo it to make the access large enough to handle a 200A panel.


Adding additional circuits to an upgraded panel will require an act of God due to the finished basement construction.  There are no raceways for additional circuits.






Based on this, my thoughts were to create a new 200A main panel outside based on something like the GE model TSM420CSCUP loadcenter.  Here's a shot of this panel:






This particular panel has room for three 2-pole breakers in addition to the 200A mains.  I'd add a 100A 2-pole breaker for the existing panel, with the other two reserved for the garage/solar expansions.



The issue with the contractors who have quoted the job appears to be the conduit going to the existing panel.  I'm not sure what's wrong with it but it is apparently not compliant with current code.  Obviously the bonding needs to change, new grounding electrodes need to be driven, and a water pipe ground needs to be established to the new main panel, but what else is required?



I'd like to throughly research all the code considerations here so I can approach a contractor from a more knowledgable perspective then determine the best way to perform this upgrade.  Due to POCO coordination and the need to cut household power for the duration of the job, I have no desire to DIY this one...



So what exactly is wrong with the conduit running from the existing meter base to the existing load center?  Why is everybody telling me that I can't do essentially what I've described above?  What are the relevant code sections that will apply to this job?  Should I be chatting with my AHJ about local considerations now or should I wait until I have the code requirements down pat (assuming the latter here)?
      

I have read and searched a bunch on wire size and I wondered if you guys could confirm that #2/0 copper is fine to run from the meter base to the panel.  Upgrading to 200 amp service, 200 amp base and 200 amp panel.  From what I gather its ok for service wires at 200 amps, but in other applications its rated for less.  For what its worth, the poco is running #4/0 to the the meter for the new service.
      

Hi guys. I'm Dan, and I'm in Knoxville, TN. I know running power to a shed is a very common topic here. I've been doing tons of reading and feel pretty comfortable with the requirements, but I have two questions I haven't been able to find a clear answer to.



First, my situation: I'm having a 10x16 shed built in my backyard, to be used primarily as a woodshop. I need more than a single circuit, so I know I need a subpanel and two grounding rods at least 6' apart, bonded to the subpanel with #6 bare copper wire.



My house has 200 amp service, and the main panel is in the garage at the opposite corner of the house from where the shed will go, so it would be pretty inconvenient to run a feeder from, there. But there's an existing 100 amp subpanel in the basement, presumably installed when the previous owner finished the basement. I'll be running a 60 amp feeder from that subpanel to the shed.



My total run will be something like 75', so I'm running #6 THWN for the two hots and neutral, and #10 THWN for the ground. I plan to bury it in 1.25" schedule 40 PVC, buried 18" deep.



My first question relates to how I need to run the wire when it's not underground. The basement is finished with a drop ceiling, so I plan to run the feeder across the drop ceiling, out of the house, down to the ground (it's a walk-out basement), then underground the 26' to the shed. I assume it still needs to be in conduit for at least the part that runs up the wall of the house. But what about inside, when it runs through the drop ceiling to the panel? Does it need to be in conduit for the whole run? Or would I just staple the four wires to the joists or something?



The other question relates to the trench. I've got a rain gutter downspout that discharges right at where the shed will soon be, so I'm running a 40' length of 4" PVC to pipe that water past the shed. It will be buried just about 6-12", just enough to run under the shed. Can I run the power conduit in the same trench (obviously, deeper)? Presumably I'd dig the 18" trench to the shed, lay the schedule 40, then add a few inches of dirt to bring it up to about 12" deep, and extend the trench past the shed at that depth, then lay the 4" drain pipe and backfill. Or do I need to dig two separate trenches? Is there a rule about how far apart they need to be if so?



If anyone sees any other flaws or concerns with my plan, please do speak up, I want to do this right. Thanks!



Dan
      

I am installing a new semi flush 200a meter/breaker panel. the neutral meter lug is bonded to the panel, and comes into the breaker side to a common bus. There is no ground bus bar

Q- do i need to install a separate ground bus for my circuit ground(s) and ground rod, and if so, do they need to be bonded together? or can i just use the common bus for all grounds and commons if there is adequate space?
      

Hello All,



I'm about to "re-locate" some existing breakers and wires into a subpanel and have a few questions.



1) My existing hot water heater is wired with 2 conductor w/ground wiring (30 amp, #10 wire). Is this still Code compliant or do you have to have 3 conductor now as with dryers?



My existing dryer also has 2 conductor w/ground wiring (installed in 1999).



If I relocated it or the hot water wires/breakers to my new subpanel will they require me to upgrade to current code (3 conductor, if applicable)? The subpanel will attach to the Main Load Center which is where those breakers/wires are currently attached.



Main question is will I be grandfathered with existing wiring in only relocating the breakers/wires to subpanel?  I'm not relocating the appliances or recepticles themselves.



2) I have 3 conductor w/ground wires for my cook top. It only requires 2 conducter w/ground however. They wired the ground/neutrals together but has flexible metal conduit running to the cook top itself. Should I remove the ground and bond it to the metal conduit?



Thanks, Ralph
      

Today I was fixing the water valve to the washing machine, and to get access to the water line, I had to disassemble an outlet. To my shock (no pun intended), I discovered that some moron bootlegged the outlet by connecting neutral and ground together.



Now I'm concerned that I may have this elsewhere in the house. What is the best way to test for this? Obviously I will see 120 V from hot to ground in any case, so that doesn't work. Continuity between neutral and ground is normal, because they are connected at the main panel; I measured the resistance between neutral and ground at an outlet close to the main panel, and it was virtually zero. But that doesn't meat it's bootlegged.



I don't really want to take each outlet apart. And even if I do that, how would I know that the moron didn't connect ground to neutral somewhere inside a wall?



Thanks,
      

My existing service entrance consists of an external Meter can mounted on the outside of the garage wall directly behind a SD Main Breaker Panel (MBP) with a 150 amp main breaker.  In order to support upgrades, I am installing a second MBP (200 amp) inside the garage in the wall cavity right next to the existing panel.



Local code requires that the upgraded Meter can be purchased from the City Utility.  I have already confirmed with the local inspector that either 4/0 Al or 2/0 Cu SE cable are acceptable for both the existing and new MBP.



My question is what is the code requirement for getting the 3 SE cables run from the dual lugs to the new panel?  Can those conductors run into the same wall cavity where the existing panel is installed?  If so, I'm certain they can't go through the same conduit nipple that connects the back of the meter can to the existing MBP.  Can they route in behind/above/below the existing panel and through a hole in the wall stud to gain access to the adjacent stud bay to get to the new panel?  If not, do they need to be routed out of the meter can on the external wall in conduit over to the next stud bay and then enter the wall there to gain access to the new panel?  If external conduit is required I would expect it must be metallic as opposed to PVC.



Best Regards,



Ted
      

I have a grounding question.  I am installing 400a service to my new home.  We ran 350MCM wire underground thru 3" conduit from the 2ndary terminal (moped) to the house into a 320A Cooper B-Line meter.  From the meter we ran 2 sets of 4/0-4/0-2/0 thru the wall to 2-200a breaker panels ("standard practice", according to my electrical supplier).  The ground wire (#4Cu bare) from the grounding rods comes up from the ground and we're curious if there has to be a special splice connecting the ground wire to each breaker panel or can we run thru one breaker panel to then next, say by connecting the ground wire to a ground bus on one panel and running that thru to the next with #4Cu bare or #6Cu in conductor.  Different electricians are suggesting different methods and the electrical inspector is unsure, but seems to be leaning towards the "special splice". Any feedback would be appreciated.
      

Garage running Underground feeder 4/4/4 AL from main panel off dual 80 amp breaker.

Yesterday I found half the garage panel was inoperative.

Tested lugs, one of the feeders is 120V, the other is at 80-90V.

Swapped the feeders at the 80 amp main to ensure it wasn't the breaker. Same results.

Tested at the 80 amp breaker at main panel, both legs 120V.

When I remove the 80-90V feeder off the 80 amp main panel breaker and test it at the garage it drops from 80-90 to 0.



No breakers trip. Is this one feeder line broken underground or split open and grounded to earth?